Karl-Heinz Dietsche

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Karl-Heinz Dietsche

Postby von Shagmeister » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:12 pm

Jagdgeschwader 301/302, by Willi Reschke, states that Karl-Heinz Dietsche served in Norway as a Fernaufklärer between 1/42-9/43 before undertaking Wilde Sau conversion at FFS A/B 110.

Could anyone provide details of his career in Norway (likely units he could have served with include 1.(F)/22, 1.(F)/120, 1.(F)/124)

Regards

von Shagmeister
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Dietsche

Postby rrau » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:04 pm

Karl-Heinz Dietsche served with 1.(F)/120 in Stavanger 1941-42. First part of 1942 he was transferred to 1.(F)/124 at Kirkenes. 06.09.43 he left 1.(F)/124 for service with a night figher unit. He passed away 07.05.87.

Rune
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Postby von Shagmeister » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:40 am

Great stuff Rune. Many thanks.

I notice that you are located in Kirkenes. I presume you have a special interest in the wartime history of that area (as you have also answered questions of mine in the past). If so do you know the names of other pilots who flew with 1.(F)/124 during its time at Kirkenes and dates of their service with the unit.

Any info you provide would be much appreciated.

Best Regards

von Shagmeister
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Recce pilots

Postby rrau » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:05 pm

A list of pilots with any long distance recce unit in Norway would be comprehensive as it seems like there were a lot of transfer of airmen between the units. Very many I know about served with both 1.(F)/120, 1.(F)/124, F-Kette Lappland and even 1.(F)/22. A number of them also served with the rather unknown \"Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120\" at the end of the War. I have the names of nearly everybody serving with 1.(F)/124, F-Kette Lappland and the Halbstaffel, but unfortunately I have not been collecting so many service records.

Rune
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Postby von Shagmeister » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:08 pm

No problem Rune. Thanks anyway.

Best Regards
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Re: Recce pilots

Postby Knut Larsson » Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:06 pm

rrau wrote:A list of pilots with any long distance recce unit in Norway would be comprehensive as it seems like there were a lot of transfer of airmen between the units. Very many I know about served with both 1.(F)/120, 1.(F)/124, F-Kette Lappland and even 1.(F)/22. A number of them also served with the rather unknown "Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120" at the end of the War. I have the names of nearly everybody serving with 1.(F)/124, F-Kette Lappland and the Halbstaffel, but unfortunately I have not been collecting so many service records.

:D Rune


Hello Rune
Can you please tell me shortly something about "Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120" as I have never hear anything about them. Who was the leader and where was it based etc

Greetings from Ås

Knut :D
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Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120

Postby rrau » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:04 pm

Hello Knut,

Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120 was established in spring 1944. It was in reality an enitre Staffel, but with less photographic and technical equipment and fewer vheicles. The creation of this unit had the following background (as told to me by one of the officers with that unit):

Until spring 1944 the German long distance sea recce from Norway was conducted by three units:

- 1.(F)/120 covered the northern part of the North Sea and the Norwegian Sea up to Iceland from Sola and Vaernes.
- 1.(F)/22 covered northern part of the Norwegian Sea from Iceland, and the Barents Sea to Jan Mayen from Bardufoss and Banak in cooperation with 3./SAGr 130, who flew the slower Bv 138 from Tromsoe and Billefjord.
- 1.(F)/124 covered the Barents Sea from Jan Mayen and eastwards from Kirkenes.

In spring 1944 it was decided to transfer 1.(F)/22 to Sicilly, but Gen.d.dt.Lw.i.Norw. Roth did not receive any new forces from RLM to fill the gap this created in the sea recce areas as RLM could not have any avialable resources for that. General Roth therefore created a \"black unit\" consisting of aircraft and personnell from 1.(F)/22 and 1.(F)/124. This unit first carried the name \"Teilkommando 1.(F)/22\", which could also be seen on the aerial photos the unit delivered. After a while was General Roth asked by RLM what unit this was, since 1.(F)/22 was in Italy? Roth then changed the name of the unit to 1/2 1.(F)/120, even if the unit had nothing to do with 1.(F)/120. This was simply a cover up to confuse RLM. Since the unit was no regular squadron it had no Staffelkapitän, but a Staffelführer.

The aircraft of 1/ 1.(F)/120 did carry their old squadron codes, so aircraft with codes belonging to 1.(F)/22 and 1.(F)/124 did operate together. There were even aircraft and crews from Aufklärungsstaffel KG 26 and Westa 5 flying there.

Crews also came from 1.(F)/120, 1.(F)/33, 1.(F)/122, Westa 26, ZG 76 and Sonderstaffel des RLM.

The unit operated from Vaernes airfield. Staffelführer was Hptm. Heinrich Eiler (previously with 1.(F)/124), until he failed to return from mission over the Norwegian Sea on 07.02.45. I belive the unit was then commanded by Hptm Erwin Wittstock (previously with Westa 5).

The fact that aircraft with Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120 did carry the old unit codes have been the source of misunderstandings among Luftwaffe researchers, failing to realize that many of the losses in 1945 was in fact an other unit than indicated from the codes.

I have listed 16 losses with the Halbstaffel.

Rune
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Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120

Postby Knut Larsson » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:59 pm

:D Hello Rune

Thanks for your long and interesting reply to my question about “Halbstaffel 1./(F)/22 and 1.(F)/120”.

This importen information regarding Luftwaffe Reece units in Norway 1944-1945 was both very clarifying and also gave me a lot of reflectivity.

I am working with a database of Luftwaffe loss in the Nordic area and has for 1944/1945 several suspicious and odd losses. Now I knew more thanks to your connections. Astonishing that this could go on to the end of the war.

Back to your statement that you have registred 16 losses with the Halbstaffe. Can you please give us date/types etc.?

Here is some of my guess?

28th Oct 1944 Ju 88 D-1 WNr.0430 056 100% Troms
7th Feb 1945 Ju 88 D-1 WNr.0430 277 100% btw Norway-Iceland
17th Mar 1945 Ju 88 D-1 WNr.0430 490 40% Vaernes
8th May 1945 Ju 88 D-1* WNr. 0881 231 100% Hedmark
8th May 1945 Ju 88 A-6 WNr. 0881 285 100% Kalmar

* The crew Fw. Schmidt / Ogfr. Gosser were killed this morning either during take off or (shortly) asfter take off from airfield Vaernes with a Ju 88 during a Kurland sortie. By the way could this be the two unknown crewmembers killed in Tynset or is it another loss

Regards Knut
:D
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Losses with the Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120

Postby rrau » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:32 pm

Hello Knut,

I was far to quick while stating that I hade recorded 16 losses with the Halbstaffel. I just took a look into my database and read that there were 16 cards for that unit, but qhen looking into it I realized that there were 16 cards with information about different aircraft and crews.

I have recorded 9 losses and 2 damages. The other four are aircraft that took part in Operation Kurland and managed to escape.

Here are the casualities I have recorded:

07. 02. 1945 Ju 88D-1 430352 4N+FH Norw. Sea 350 km NW Trondheim
07. 02. 1945 Ju 88D-1 430277 4N+EH Norw. Sea 450 km NW Trondheim
07. 02. 1945 Ju 88A-4 6682 1H+HF Norw. Sea 250 km NW Trondheim
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88D-1 Sturzacker
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88D Vaernes airfield
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88A-6/U 4N+RH Kella airfield, Eschwege
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88 Kurland
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88D-1 1231 Hoeggia, Tynset
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88A 4N+RH (damaged by AA-fire over Germany)
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88 Vaernes airfield (damaged)
09. 05. 1945 Ju 88D-1 430307 4N+KH Norway - Hage

As you see, the Tynset wreck must have belonged to the Halbstaffel, but is not the same as listed crashed at Vaernes that date. The aircraft originated from 1.(F)/124 while the crew of two men carried Erkennungsmärke from 1.(F)/120, both issued at the same time and so late in the War that they were not recorded in Berlin - which is the reason why these two men are still unidentified.

Surviving aircraft of the Halbstaffel:

08. 05. 1945 Ju 88A-6/U 1285 4N+CH Kalmar airfield (F 12)
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88A-5 G2+QH Hage airfield, 6 km from Norden
08. 05. 1945 He 111H Wittmundhafen airfield
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88 (NK) airfield
08. 05. 1945 Ju 88D-1 430722 Vaernes airfield

To your list, you will see that some of them are also in my list. The loss 28.10.44 (in my list WNr 430566) seem to have been a regular 1.(F)/22 aircraft operating from Bardufoss as 1.(F)/22 was partially back in Norway late autumn 1944 as the War over the Mediterranean was over and Luftwaffe forces were transferred to Norway. The unit - or what was left of it - seem to have been spread around. As example, the commander of 1.(F)/22 was killed in crash at Kjevik airfield on 10.11.44.

The loss at Vaernes on 17.03.45 also seem to be a regular 1.(F)/120 aircraft as they also used Vaernes while flying recce over the Norwegian Sea.

Rune
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Recce units

Postby Kjetil Aakra » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:13 am

A fasinating read, Rune. Thanks for posting all these details.

The Halbstaffel was unknown to me and their history is certainly interesting.

It seems to me that the recce-units serving in Norway are worthy of a book or two on their own, given their vast and important area they had to cover and their interesting stories!

As you know my Museum has some photos from 1.(F)/22 in Russia and Bardufoss and they are certainly even more interesting when you put them in some kind of context like this!

Kjetil
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Halbstaffel 1.(F)/AGr 120

Postby Knut Larsson » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:46 am

:D Hello again Rune

Thank you very much for your interesting loss list regarding the Halbstaffel “1.(F)/AGr 120” I see that I have fewer admendments to do than expected. But I am still in a puzzle by the fact that no loss or damage is registred for 1944. The first loss for this unit appeared as late as 7th Feb 1945.

A pair of German histrorians I have talked with seems to belive more that this semi secret unit was not formed shortly after 1.F)/22 leaved for Italy in spring 1944, but rather in Jan/Feb 1945 when what was left of it (without aircrafts) moved to airfield Jüterbog, Germany for conversion traning (Umrüstung)!

However this can perhaps be solved to what is the oldest date you have seen on aerial photos taken by Teikommando “1.(F)/AGr 22” or in another way.

Regarding the action this unit had on 7th Feb with the loss of 3 aircrafts, can this be linked to Lufttorpedogruppe II./KG 26?

I have heard that this day II./KG 26 had the Allied shipsconvoy JW64 as target, but failed to locate it. I have registreda loss of 5 aircrafts together with 2 aircrafts from Geschwaderstab KG 26 LT and now also 3 aircrafts from the Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120.

A poor result for the Germans I think, some units to blame.....?

Regards

:D Knut
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Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120

Postby rrau » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:00 pm

Hello again Knut,

Let me first add one more loss to the Halbstaffel, which I registered today:

* 12.01.45 Ju 88D-1 lost 225 km NW Bergen.

Then to your remarks: I have also been puzzled by the fact that there were no registered losses in 1944. Though there might have been losses of aircraft where the crew escaped unhurt, as we are missing the Qu.M. 6. Abt. RLM records for that year.

The unit really was establised spring 1944. The officer I interviewed arrived to the unit in May, 1944. His log book confirmes first flight from Vaernes on 18 May 1944. Then first enemy mission 29 May 1944 with Ju 88D 4N+FH. I also have other log books from the unit confirming and documenting operations during summer 1944 and onwards. I also have photos showing aircraft of the unit at Vaernes in summer 1944.

Regarding 7th February 1945, you are right. Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120 had four aircraft in the air searching for the convoy, and only the Ju 88 flying search line 550 km NW Trondheim (Lt. Peter Pütz) returned to base.

Rune
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Halbstaffel 1.(F)/124

Postby Knut Larsson » Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:07 am

Hello Rune

Thank you very much for your a clarifying reply.

It is splendid that you are always willing to share your vast knowledge about Luftwaffe in the Nordic area with others.

By the way just read Luftwaffe im Focus 2s Kurland, dramatic and interesting events for the Norwegian based units I must say.


Greetings from Ås

Knut
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Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120

Postby rrau » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:46 am

Just to finalize this matter:

I just came back from a week in Germany, where I once again interviewed people from Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120. It was reconfirmed that the unit started to operate i May, 1944 fro Trondheim-Vaernes. Despite constant operations during 1944 they sufferede no losses that year except damages on the runway (Rollschaden). The unit flew basically Ju 88, it never had any Ju 188s, but in 1945 they also operated three Fw 200s.

In Autumn 1944 1.(F)/22 came back to Norway, but only temporarily, operating in same recce area as Halbstaffel 1.(F)/120.

The Halbstaffel had only two commanders (Staffelführer): Hptm. Heinrich Eiler (previously with 1.(F)/124), until he failed to return from mission over the Norwegian Sea on 07.02.45, and Hptm Heinz Lindhorst (previously Westa) - not Hptm Erwin Wittstock, as I previously believed.

Rune
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1/2 \"1.(F)/AGR 120\"

Postby Knut Larsson » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:51 pm

Hello Rune

Thank you very much for your new information regarding the last Staffelkapitän and formation date.

May 1944 is probably the correct date regarding formation. According to author Werner Fehse on 15th May 1944 1.(F)/AGr 124 had to give away 4 crews to the new Halbstaffel.

Among them were Ofw. Hubert Bartezko (FF), Hptm. Heinrich Eiler (B), Fw. Arno Klein (BF) and Fw. Heinrich Bauer.

Do you know if this also was the crew when Hptm. Eiler was killed over the Norwegian Sea on 7th Feb 1945?

Greetings
Knut
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